@jaramsli @c

would you be so nice to create the missing image description @OCRbot ?

Image descripton 

Meme depicting a rich white dude that stands next to his luxury car.

The meme caption reads:

"My boss arrived at work in a brand-new Lamburghini. I said, 'Wow, that's an amazing car!'"

"He replied, 'If you work hard, put all your hours in, and strive for excellence, I'll get another one next year.'"
@jaramsli @c

Image descripton 

@maxi @c Thanks. I'm a tad embarrassed that I didn't think of that myself, especially since I just logged off an ARIA presentation.

@c
Some tips on being successful:
* Wake up at 4am
* Stop buying starbucks
* Be born into a rich family
* Exercise every day
@c this shit again. With Gates, IBM was forced to outsource it's OS development because they were continuously buttfucked by an antitrust committee at the time. The same reason they used Intel chips instead of their own stuff.
@c also, if you can turn $300k into 200 billion, I'll be happy to lend you this money! I'm not kidding. Please do tell me if you possess this kind of talent.

@newt @c Except they didn't know they could do that beforehand. They lent 300K to a KID. Not knowing if he could make anything of it. Which means it was pocket money. Which makes it worse.

@thelinuxEXP @c what? Bezos founded Amazon when he was 30 years old, after almost a decade of working at Wall Street.

Also, it’s their money. Who care what people do with whatever they earned? I spend my money on stupid shit all the time.

@newt @c That's not the point . The point is that they're not self made at all. They didn't start with nothing. They had tremendous help that most people will never get. That's the whole point of the initial post.

@thelinuxEXP @c the whole point of the original post seems quite stupid, given that the theses don’t hold if you bother to at least read wikipedia.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like these people either, but your ideas are all wrong. For every Bezos who succeeds there are thousands of wasted investments. It really requires talent and metric tons of luck to achieve what these lads have.

@newt @c I'm not saying they didn't work hard, or have talent. I'm just saying they never started from the ground up. This myth of the self made billionaire needs to stop. They night be talented, but they didn't start with the same opportunites as everyone.

@thelinuxEXP @c as I mentioned, if you can turn $300k into 200 billion, there are lots of people willing to invest. Hell, if you can turn $300k into 30 million, people will invest.

@newt @c Except they didn't know he could do that when they gave him the money.

@thelinuxEXP @c no shit! This is how investments work! You diversify your portfolio, so that if most fail, you can still cover the losses from what succeeds.

@newt @c And so your initial point of "if you can turn 300K into 30M, everyone will give that money to you" doesn't work ;)

@thelinuxEXP @c if this wasn’t the case, startups wouldn’t work. But they do somehow.

@newt Yeah. I'm always surprised when I see this kind of bullshit boosted by otherwise smart people. No one is safe from disinformation when it plays into their biases, I guess.

I don't know much about Jobs and Buffet, but with Musk, his dad owned *half* a mine, and not in South Africa but in Zambia, which was pretty much the most anti-apartheid country in the region.

@c

@wolf480pl @c and are your parents rich enough to gamble a house on your project?

Would that risk be big enough to prevent you from taking that kind of money from them? (if they can)

Having money matters. There are people out there who started and failed 3-4 such projects and since the 5th worked, they claim they did it on their own.

Meanwhile most people couldn't even start a first one.

@drazraeltod @c
I'm richer than my parents, but I think my situation is nowhere near the situation of someone living in USA.

Anyway, eventually people are supposed to get their own house, right? (Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know much about economics in USA) If so, then they could take a risk and try building a business instead of buying/building a house.

1/

@drazraeltod @c And yes having money matters. But not everyone with 300k can become a billionaire.
It also takes luck.
Possibly also skill and effort.

@wolf480pl @c It really helps your luck along if you can try multiple times and have no real trouble while failing.

@wolf480pl @c

> Anyway, eventually people are supposed to get their own house, right?

Are they? Why? And every person? Not like every second to third?

And was Bezos expected to get a house AND invest the worth of a house into his business?

there are things that DO make a difference.

@drazraeltod @c well ok every second because it takes 2 people to form a family, so I guess someone could give up on having a family in order to pursue a business but then it's still half as much.

Anyway, my main point is, getting 300k from parents is probably not the deciding factor on whether or not someone becomes a billionaire

@wolf480pl @drazraeltod @c

"Instead of buying a house, I'll use the $300k to create a business".

Families don't even have the money to buy a house... Most of the middle class families, in Italy, don't have $300k. If they buy a new house, they do so by taking a mortgage/loan.
Where are you living to have such high wages?

@ranfdev @drazraeltod @c I'm not living in a place where people have 300k USD but amounts of USD only make sense in USA. There's no point converting an Italian's salary, or an Italian's house cost, to USD.

But fair point abiut mortgages I somehow forgot about that. Yes, most people here get them too.

@wolf480pl @drazraeltod @c the point is it's not "selfmade". Musk & co were privileged with amounts of money unthinkable for regular people. Telling the public everyone can become a billionaire is a deception to keep them in the rat race thats actually making musk and co richer and richer

@Cyia @drazraeltod @c
I think the amount of privilege Bezos started with is negligible compared to the amount of privilege he has now. Based on the information provided, he wasn't anywhere near top 0.1% when he started.

But yeah not everyone can become a billionaire. Most people can't.
Even most of rich people can't.

But the "oh he got a headstart" isn't a particularly strong argument.

Most people can't, otherwise the would've done it by now.

@Cyia @drazraeltod @c
Billionaires are billionaires because they did something most people couldn't do.

The question should be, was that something helpful to the people who gave them money, and to society at large.

And is it safe to the rest of us for someone to have that much money.

@wolf480pl @drazraeltod @c it's not safe, keyword monopoly.

Furthermore it's highly anti social, tax evasion etc. Most "innovative" stuff these people are credited with has been thought by and/or has been developed by poorer people anyways.

@Cyia @drazraeltod @c it's not just monopoly. The amount of money they have is comparable to that of small countries' governments. They can "buy" legislation that they want.

Who cares if they're self-made. Even if they were, that kinda power is the hands of a dictator is dangerous.

@wolf480pl @drazraeltod @c no, that's not the point. The point is there are many, many people with great ideas out there, even people with a sense for business, that don't have rich parents. These people will never be billionaires because "selfmade billionaire" is a lie. Just calculate how long you'd have to work a regular job to get to the 300k starting capital.

@c tbf Musks father didn't own that mine during apartheid. He did however have more than enough money he earned working for such mines that he later was able to buy those shares.

It's small differences like that, that's allowing Musk and his followers to run around screaming "but that's not true!"

@drazraeltod

Quoting web.archive.org/web/2021112503:

Mr Musk’s journey to such unimaginable wealth started from a position of financial privilege, albeit one of emotional abuse. His mother, Maye Musk, was a model who has featured on the covers of numerous magazines including Time and Vogue.

In 1969 she was a finalist in the Miss South Africa beauty competition, and one year after that married Elon Musk’s father, Errol Musk. In the mid-1980s, the family profited handsomely from Errol Musk’s purchasing of an emerald mine, after selling their airplane for £80,000 (the equivalent of £320,000 today).

[…]

As a result of this, the teenage Elon Musk once walked the streets of New York with emeralds in his pocket. adding that one person would have to hold the money in place with another closing the door. “And then there’d still be all these notes sticking out and we’d sort of pull them out and put them in our pockets.”

@drazraeltod

In case you did not know: When Elon 's father bought that emerald mine in the eighties, South Afrika was still a full-on apartheid state.

@c don't dispute that - but Elon was moving to Canada in the mid-80s, so the big money his father had during his childhood wasn't made by _owning_ the mine

doesn't really change anything meaningfull, just wanted to add this because some people tend to claim "this is all wrong" if tiny bits are simplified

@c People really fall for this:



It's like saying "Andy Murray won Wimbledon - so can you!!"

@c I hate to rush to the defense of billionaires (I'm not) but these memes are pretty useless when they are just repeating things supported only by some random person's anonymous tweet and not by, you know, evidence.

@c the emerald mine allegation, for example... boy is that ever a spotty one. If it exists at all, it's in Zambia, not "apartheid South Africa".

We've got to burn them on facts, not internet rumors.

@c So is there really such a thing as a true self-made billionaire?

@c
Explain Oprah, Larry Ellison, or Chris Gardner.

@c When you start on third base in the bottom of the ninth of the final game of the World Series & think of yourself as a champion of the world for running home one time.

At least, that's the energy I get from people like them.

@c

and the conclusion of these simple facts is, that it won't change anything at all, to replace these 4 white males by other persons who were not born with privileges, but worked hard for qualifications and merits.

There's no change but systemchange.
There's no war but class war.

@c the ownership of an emerald mine by Errol Musk is in dispute popculture.com/trending/news/e but regardless, Elon’s father did not set him up in business…

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